_______________________________________________The problem with the politics of Mr. Krebiel, Mr. Case and Mr. Moore is nationalism. None of you seem to care about the primary problem: the political stranglehold of a militarist economy. The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans in seeking money and doing the bidding of the military-industrial complex. Both are subservient to Israel's illegal and racist apartheid settlements which makes 2 billion Muslims our enemies except for the head-chopping, filthy-rich Saudi monarchists.
What makes our situation any different than the 1938 Germans who supported the militarist system for jobs and perks? Put yourself in their shoes. What would you have done if you were in Germany in 1938?
The only opposition to the 2-party militarist system is the Green Party, for better or worse. We will not win, but will go down fighting for truth while Democrats cannot tell the truth and win. And even if Dems do win, they cannot change the military economy. The most they can do is get a bigger slice of the pie for the 99%. That is nice, but the flip side is co-optation. Old Lefties called that "social fascism."
Imperialism will be defeated by foreign forces. Greens will be known as the brave resistance when that happens. Someone has to tell the truth. If not us, then who? Intellectuals should know the difference between nationalism and internationalism. If otherwise progressive Democrats oppose Israel, they will lose. The tail wags the dog.
Dems will not take on Lockheed-Martin, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Boeing, the Pentagon, NSA, CIA, DHS, FBI and all their sub-contractors. That is the Dems' working-class base because other heavy industry is gone. Moore may be defeatist, but he is realistic. He should take on the M-I Complex as the source of all ills. That should be his next movie.
Richard Ochs
Baltimore
From: Members <members-bounces+rjochs=comcast.net@lists.cc-ds.org> On Behalf Of Paul Krehbiel
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 11:50 AM
To: John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com>
Cc: Socialist Economics <socialist-economics@googlegroups.com>; Blogger Socialist Economics <jcase4218.lightanddark@blogger.com>; CCDS-Members <members@lists.cc-ds.org>
Subject: Re: [CCDS Members] [CCD Members] Fahrenheit 11/9 -- Not as hot as hoped
We saw Fahrenheit 11/9. Moore's critique of many evils and looming threats is quite good, but the shortcoming - which is significant, is his failure to give clear direction to viewers and voters about the critical importance of defeating the right in November's elections. He mentions the elections, but it gets lost in his catalogue of evils which he sees nearly everywhere. The message is that there is little hope.
He should have had much, much more on the many exciting and important election campaigns across the country where moderate to very progressive candidates, mostly running as Democrats, are challenging right-wing GOP candidates, from Congress to state and local elections. That is where our attention and activity should be.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 27, 2018, at 7:07 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:I saw Michael Moore's new Fahrenheit 11/9. Moore is a Brilliant political film maker, and his craft gets sharper and more skillful with each film.
But the politics of the film are questionable. It raises important issuesand focuses on key 'resistance' struggles: the Flint water murder case, the killings in the streets and schools, Trump and the Republican links to fascism, the teachers struggles, the rise of democratic socialist candidacies, and much more.
However, he spends as much time attacking Obama and Hillary as Trump. This is not the Primary anymore, Michael! You ACT like you are following Bernie. But your are not. NONE of the democratic socialist agenda is even ON THE TABLE for discussion if the Dems -- both left and center -- cannot take Congress. If that fails, the struggle is to live, to not get shot, to stay out of war, to deal with death, loss, disasters and despair. Medicare for All will not be heard.
Further, among other suspect or unhelpful assertions, Moore can't refrain from making the AFT as much an adversary of the WV Teachers, as the R gov. and legislature. This is a serious splitting contribution, reminiscent of Moore's friends at Labor Notes addiction to Glorious Defeats. It is especially regretable at this time where teachers have united MANY previous divisions and factions through their struggle and still have serious challenges ahead.. Plus, it shows little actual understanding of the WV teacher strike details and dynamics.
The film wants to turn out the vote, but not for "corporate dems". Sounds like a perfect recipe for a super-"Glorious Defeats" for both progressive and liberal values, which will then be blamed on union leaders and sell-out liberals.
What really needs to happen acc to Moore? '"Throw out the whole rotten system that caused all this".
But first, let Trump win????? More empty phrase-mongering on abolishing capitalism with fascists on the rise?
In WV this film's politics, if grasped by 5% of the voters, will lead to the losses of a US Den Senate seat to aTrumper fascist and labor hater. Is that moving forward or backwards?
--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Enlighten Radio Player Stream,
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Friday, September 28, 2018
Re: [CCDS Members] [CCD Members] Fahrenheit 11/9 -- Not as hot as hoped
First of all, I'm always the one of the people in my milieu bringing the anti-militarist anti-imperialist message, bringing it in the gentle extremely-skillful way that relates it to my people's immediate concrete circumstances so they will be able to here me, bringing it in the way that, most of the time (Randy has been put out of social situations/organizations for not being willing to ignore this component of our reality) is necessary to actually have any chance of building consciousness here.
I haven't yet seen the film. I'll have travel into PGH to see it. Been so busy here in the de-industrialized zone that my trips to the city have been much less frequent.
I am disappointed to hear that the actual concrete analysis of W VA is off. The public dissemination of that knowledge is so rare & valuable.
But even taking that into consideration, sounds like Moore is working exactly the message I'm working while de-emphasizing the practical edge of it; that we're doing two things. 1. Defeating an attempt to move our govt into overt fascism and 2. Moving progressiveness into positions of power in order to defeat neoliberalism. People where I live know somethings deeply wrong. And that's mostly how we ot trump. If we allow that deep unconscious working-class knowledge to be linked to racism/homophobia/misogyny, then we are deeply missing our sacred responsibility as leftists. People here listen to me & respect me & seek my counsel exactly because I'm willing to respectfully speak this truth. I have good open honest relationship with Clinton liberals even though I irritate them at times & contradict & bring into focus their often-unconscious imperialist slant, thus causing a rift in the fabric of patriotic feel-good & create cognitive dissonance. But again, that is work that is extremely relational & requires a lot of skill. It's taken me years to get half-way good at it.
I'll acknowledge that kind of gentle relational communication might not be one of Moore's strong points, but at this point some things need said. Maybe Moore's message works well here where I live because he's from a place like this, Flint. trump did not drop on us from the sky. Things happened that paved the way for the hyper-racism of fascism. And the promise of the past glories of imperialism play well to people in a culture that remembers what high-paying jobs were. The "America is already great" counter to trump rings pretty hollow here in the opiod-ridden deindustrialized zone. We ignore this at our own peril.
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:12 AM <rjochs@comcast.net> wrote:
Tina B Shannon
"For apart from inquiry, apart from the praxis, individuals cannot be truly human. Knowledge emerges only through invention and re-invention, through the restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry human beings pursue in the world, with the world, and with each other."
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