Sunday, November 13, 2016

Re: [socialist-econ] NYTimes: Hillary Clinton Blames F.B.I. Director for Election Loss

She and her campaign did NOT make the case. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2016, at 8:52 PM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

Hillary Clinton Blames F.B.I. Director for Election Loss http://nyti.ms/2eOiVcJ

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Posted by at No comments:

Saturday, November 12, 2016

NYTimes: Hillary Clinton Blames F.B.I. Director for Election Loss

Hillary Clinton Blames F.B.I. Director for Election Loss http://nyti.ms/2eOiVcJ

Posted by at No comments:

some stats on what would have happened with sanders on ticket

http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-would-have-crushed-trump/

These numbers are NOT conclusive -- but they tell a strong narrative of the advantages of Sanders having been the VP pick in the vulnerable states.

--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [socialist-econ] Re: [CCDS Members] Left wing Scabs; IN these times

John, you are so right!!!! When Dems don't give voters a reason to vote for them that improves their quality of life, they lose. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2016, at 1:38 PM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

I emphatically do NOT agree with this assessment. The loss to  Trump is INEXCUSABLE, on ANY grounds. From the beginning, Bernie's STRATEGY and LINE was the correct strategy. The Clinton strategy of focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the many positive vision, and pro worker positions on issues, points she shared with Sanders during the primary, was the PRIMARY MISTAKE. There are many others. I share some of them. But the bottom line is: Trump was beatable, and Hillary Clinton did NOT get it done.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:
To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.

But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."

When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.

"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.



On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to  do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either  contracts or organizing over the long run.

2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.

3. The loss was due, first,  to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather  than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of  many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.

4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical  arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,

Thats a short explanation.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:
John, please explain.  Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election?  Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?

Ellen Schwartz
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 12, 2016, at 6:55 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_deserve_their_share_of_the_blame_for_donald_trumps_victory

More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.

--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
_______________________________________________
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CCDS welcomes and encourages the full participation of our members in
this list serve. It is intended for discussion of issues of concern to
our organization and its members, for building our community, for
respectfully expressing our different points of view, all in keeping
with our commitment to building a democratic and socialist society. To
those ends, free and honest discussion of issues and ideas is
encouraged. However, personal attacks on named individuals, carrying on
old vendettas, excessive posts and, especially, statements that are
racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic and/or anti-working class are not
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Repeated failure to respect those principles of discussion
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The Winners and Losers Radio Show
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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [socialist-econ] Re: [CCDS Members] Left wing Scabs; IN these times

But the fact is that she did BOTH, at least the Hillary I heard and the adds I saw, while in Michigan two weeks before the election. And by the way, Trump's unfitness because he's a brazen racist, misogynist, nativist, thoroughly indecent - not to mention danger to humanity - is a class issue to anyone who has more than smidgen of class consciousness.

And the notion that the angry white workers who voted for Trump would have seamlessly cast a vote for Bernie had he been a candidate is wishful thinking, not a materialist analysis.

One, but no means the only, starting point after any defeat - and keep in mind Hillary won the popular vote - is to ask what did we do?

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:38 PM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:
I emphatically do NOT agree with this assessment. The loss to  Trump is INEXCUSABLE, on ANY grounds. From the beginning, Bernie's STRATEGY and LINE was the correct strategy. The Clinton strategy of focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the many positive vision, and pro worker positions on issues, points she shared with Sanders during the primary, was the PRIMARY MISTAKE. There are many others. I share some of them. But the bottom line is: Trump was beatable, and Hillary Clinton did NOT get it done.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:
To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.

But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."

When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.

"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.



On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to  do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either  contracts or organizing over the long run.

2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.

3. The loss was due, first,  to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather  than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of  many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.

4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical  arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,

Thats a short explanation.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:
John, please explain.  Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election?  Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?

Ellen Schwartz
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 12, 2016, at 6:55 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_deserve_their_share_of_the_blame_for_donald_trumps_victory

More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.

--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
_______________________________________________
CCDS Members mailing list

CCDS website: http://www.cc-ds.org

CCDS welcomes and encourages the full participation of our members in
this list serve. It is intended for discussion of issues of concern to
our organization and its members, for building our community, for
respectfully expressing our different points of view, all in keeping
with our commitment to building a democratic and socialist society. To
those ends, free and honest discussion of issues and ideas is
encouraged. However, personal attacks on named individuals, carrying on
old vendettas, excessive posts and, especially, statements that are
racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic and/or anti-working class are not
appropriate.

Repeated failure to respect those principles of discussion
may result in exclusion from the list.
Please respect each other and our organization.

Any member of the list who objects to a posting on the list or the
behavior of a particular member should send email describing his or her
concerns to members-owner@lists.cc-ds.org

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You are subscribed as: ellen@nicetechnology.com



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John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.

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Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.

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Posted by at No comments:

Re: [socialist-econ] Re: [CCDS Members] Left wing Scabs; IN these times

I emphatically do NOT agree with this assessment. The loss to  Trump is INEXCUSABLE, on ANY grounds. From the beginning, Bernie's STRATEGY and LINE was the correct strategy. The Clinton strategy of focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the many positive vision, and pro worker positions on issues, points she shared with Sanders during the primary, was the PRIMARY MISTAKE. There are many others. I share some of them. But the bottom line is: Trump was beatable, and Hillary Clinton did NOT get it done.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:
To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.

But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."

When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.

"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.



On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to  do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either  contracts or organizing over the long run.

2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.

3. The loss was due, first,  to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather  than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of  many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.

4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical  arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,

Thats a short explanation.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:
John, please explain.  Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election?  Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?

Ellen Schwartz
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 12, 2016, at 6:55 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_deserve_their_share_of_the_blame_for_donald_trumps_victory

More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.

--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
_______________________________________________
CCDS Members mailing list

CCDS website: http://www.cc-ds.org

CCDS welcomes and encourages the full participation of our members in
this list serve. It is intended for discussion of issues of concern to
our organization and its members, for building our community, for
respectfully expressing our different points of view, all in keeping
with our commitment to building a democratic and socialist society. To
those ends, free and honest discussion of issues and ideas is
encouraged. However, personal attacks on named individuals, carrying on
old vendettas, excessive posts and, especially, statements that are
racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic and/or anti-working class are not
appropriate.

Repeated failure to respect those principles of discussion
may result in exclusion from the list.
Please respect each other and our organization.

Any member of the list who objects to a posting on the list or the
behavior of a particular member should send email describing his or her
concerns to members-owner@lists.cc-ds.org

Post: Members@lists.cc-ds.org
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  visit: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/members/ellen%40nicetechnology.com

You are subscribed as: ellen@nicetechnology.com



--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.

--
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Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [socialist-econ] Re: [CCDS Members] Left wing Scabs; IN these times

To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.

But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."

When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.

"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.



On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:
1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to  do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either  contracts or organizing over the long run.

2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.

3. The loss was due, first,  to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather  than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of  many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.

4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical  arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,

Thats a short explanation.

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:
John, please explain.  Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election?  Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?

Ellen Schwartz
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 12, 2016, at 6:55 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_deserve_their_share_of_the_blame_for_donald_trumps_victory

More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.

--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.
_______________________________________________
CCDS Members mailing list

CCDS website: http://www.cc-ds.org

CCDS welcomes and encourages the full participation of our members in
this list serve. It is intended for discussion of issues of concern to
our organization and its members, for building our community, for
respectfully expressing our different points of view, all in keeping
with our commitment to building a democratic and socialist society. To
those ends, free and honest discussion of issues and ideas is
encouraged. However, personal attacks on named individuals, carrying on
old vendettas, excessive posts and, especially, statements that are
racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic and/or anti-working class are not
appropriate.

Repeated failure to respect those principles of discussion
may result in exclusion from the list.
Please respect each other and our organization.

Any member of the list who objects to a posting on the list or the
behavior of a particular member should send email describing his or her
concerns to members-owner@lists.cc-ds.org

Post: Members@lists.cc-ds.org
List info and archives: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/members
To Unsubscribe, send email to:
Members-unsubscribe@lists.cc-ds.org
To Unsubscribe, change your email address, your password or your preferences:
  visit: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/members/ellen%40nicetechnology.com

You are subscribed as: ellen@nicetechnology.com



--
John Case
Harpers Ferry, WV

The Winners and Losers Radio Show
Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.

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