I emphatically do NOT agree with this assessment. The loss to Trump is INEXCUSABLE, on ANY grounds. From the beginning, Bernie's STRATEGY and LINE was the correct strategy. The Clinton strategy of focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the many positive vision, and pro worker positions on issues, points she shared with Sanders during the primary, was the PRIMARY MISTAKE. There are many others. I share some of them. But the bottom line is: Trump was beatable, and Hillary Clinton did NOT get it done.--On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.
But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."
When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.
"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:--1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either contracts or organizing over the long run.2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.3. The loss was due, first, to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,Thats a short explanation.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_de serve_their_share_of_the_blame _for_donald_trumps_victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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I emphatically do NOT agree with this assessment. The loss to Trump is INEXCUSABLE, on ANY grounds. From the beginning, Bernie's STRATEGY and LINE was the correct strategy. The Clinton strategy of focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the many positive vision, and pro worker positions on issues, points she shared with Sanders during the primary, was the PRIMARY MISTAKE. There are many others. I share some of them. But the bottom line is: Trump was beatable, and Hillary Clinton did NOT get it done.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/--On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.
But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."
When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.
"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:--1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either contracts or organizing over the long run.2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.3. The loss was due, first, to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,Thats a short explanation.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_de serve_their_share_of_the_blame _for_donald_trumps_victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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You are subscribed as: ellen@nicetechnology.com--John Case
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To hang the outcome last Tuesday on Hillary Clinton nearly exclusively, as many are, is very mistaken, and makes going forward more difficult. I'm writing a post for my blog that will address this.
But in the meantime, I just read Bernie Sanders' op ed in the NY Times. To write, as he does, that the vote across the Midwest was a "protest vote," and leave it at that, is shocking. And yet I'm not surprised. This is a blind spot in his "class politics."
When Trump threw particular sections of the working class and their communities under the bus, as he did in the campaign, no one, including Bernie should do anything now to dignify or give legitimacy the actions of white workers who helped elect him. And calling their vote a "protest vote" does exactly that. It would be fairer to characterize it as "scabbing," but that wouldn't be helpful either.
"Them versus Us" isn't class politics, especially in our country, if it doesn't have at its core an understanding of other forms of oppression experienced by particular sections of the working class and their communities and the necessity of unity of the multi-racial, male-female, native born and immigrant working class family.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 11:13 AM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:--1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either contracts or organizing over the long run.2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.3. The loss was due, first, to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,Thats a short explanation.On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_de serve_their_share_of_the_blame _for_donald_trumps_victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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old vendettas, excessive posts and, especially, statements that are
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1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either contracts or organizing over the long run.2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.3. The loss was due, first, to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,Thats a short explanation.--On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_leaders_ deserve_their_share_of_the_ blame_for_donald_trumps_ victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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1. Every union engages in "business unionism" when it signs a contract granting management rights to the employer, as it is required to do under everry labor law since the Wagner Act. Speaking as former UE member and organizer, I love "rank and file" unionism. However, that is not the cure for the crisis in the labor movement The UE did no better than the so-called "business unions" on either contracts or organizing over the long run.2. Clinton was far superior to Trump -- and the ONLY alternative to trump after the primary. The AFL-CIO decision to endorse Clinton was delayed several times in deference to the significant labor support for Bernie. But the AFL-CIO Executive council decision was, IMO, an essentially democratic one, reflecting the balance of support in affiliated unions.3. The loss was due, first, to Clinton errors (and others, including myself) in following through on Bernie's class politics, errors -- the biggest -- including NOT putting Bernie on the ticket, thee next biggest being focusing on Trump's unfitness, rather than the demonstrated disaffection and alienation of many workinig class voters who hav e not had a fucking raise in 40 years.4. The left wing,Jill Stein, head up your ass, feet planted in mid-air Half-trump voters, are as close to scabs in the poliitical arena as i can imagine. They are not the biggest reason for Trump's election, but they played a disgraceful, mostly white-privileged, role.,Thats a short explanation.--On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Ellen Schwartz <ellen@nicetechnology.com> wrote:John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_ leaders_deserve_their_share_ of_the_blame_for_donald_ trumps_victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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John, please explain. Is what we used to call "business unionism" not a real thing? Did organized labor play a positive role in the election? Or is it that you feel Hillary was a positive candidate as compared with Bernie?Ellen SchwartzSent from my iPadhttp://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19621/labor_ leaders_deserve_their_share_ of_the_blame_for_donald_ trumps_victory More complete, asshat garbage from the scab left.--John Case
Harpers Ferry, WVThe Winners and Losers Radio Show7-9 AM Weekdays, Eastern Panhandle Independent Community (EPIC) Radio Stream,Sign UP HERE to get the Weekly Program Notes.Check out Socialist Economics.Check out The EPIC Radio website_______________________________________________
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