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Wednesday, December 14, 2016

Re: [socialist-econ] Two Things to Keep in Mind about Allegations of Russian Interference in the US Election [feedly]

If we are to build the broadest possible resistance to fascist takeover of the U S government it is imperative that we find every way possible to de legitimize Trump and his taking of power. The reports by 17 different U S intelligence agencies that Russia attempted to interfere in the election for Trump is a crucial piece of building that resistance and broad support for it. 

Please let us not underestimate the viciousness of the coming administration. It's foundation us the extreme right and fascism and virulent racism , the takeover of government by corporations and the subordination of democracy and human values.  

We must fight that with the broadest coalition in every way possible including on the issues of voter suppression and intimidation and voter theft. 

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On Dec 14, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:

Art and I obviously visit different news sites. Still, I think he worries too much about the rest of us falling into traps, getting sidetracked, buying into CIA dirty tricks, becoming distracted from the "real interference" in our elections, losing sight of Trump's immediate agenda, or forgetting about Hillary's aggressive posture toward Russia.

It's not like we can do anything much about this at the moment other than to insist on a full investigation and disclosure of what Russia.

That said, I do think it is an issue. And, if "in the unlikely event" it "prevents Trump from becoming president," it would be - sorry Art - a big deal, even if Pence were his replacement.

Leftsplaining this issue away isn't smart, but it is predictable. Sam

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Samuel Webb <swebb1945@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Stewart; it appears that the Russian government interfered in our elections and that is a big issue, regardless of the past and present activities of own intelligence agencies. Given the small margin of victory in the states of the upper Midwest, it is fair to think that Russian interference, Wikileaks, and the larger intervention of the FBI, turned the election in Trump's favor.

Seems like Putin and Trump envision a strategic relationship going forward.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 5:24 PM, John Case <jcase4218@gmail.com> wrote:


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Two Things to Keep in Mind about Allegations of Russian Interference in the US Election
// EconoSpeak

This weekend we're being treated to claims the CIA is convinced the Russian government used its hacking prowess to support Trump's election this year, along with equally vehement claims that, in the absence of publicly provided evidence, we have every reason to be skeptical of US intelligence assertions.

Do I have any more access to the intelligence backstory than you do?  No.  But from what I do know, I suggest two starting points for making sense of this tangle.

1. To the extent they have evidence for their claims, US intelligence agencies are unable to reveal them.  The specifics of this evidence would make it clear what methods were used to obtain it, which would make those methods worthless from that point on.  Moreover, the techniques for acquiring defensive information on how US sites have been hacked are largely the same as those used for the US hacking of foreign sites.  If the disclosures were only defensive in nature, a stronger case could be made that it is in the interest of the intel folks to come clean, but they are unlikely to disavail themselves of offensive weapons.

2. Security breaches of the type exemplified by possible Russian hacking of the RNC, DNC and other sites are likely commonplace; they certainly occur much more often than reported.  (It is not in the interest of hacked entities to publicize this fact unless their hand is forced.  They may not even know it has happened.)  Before we bewail our victim status, however, we should note that the US government, and private and semi-private actors in the US, play this game like everyone else.  In the end, if the allegations about Russia are true, what we have experienced in this country is a PSYOP action not so dissimilar in intent and effect from similar actions launched from here.

I'd like to see a debate over whether aggressive exploitation of foreign cyber vulnerabilities by US agencies comes at the expense of domestic cybersecurity and the security of the overall transnational system.  The US has enjoyed first mover advantage in many areas of weaponized technology, but the long term consequence is, or will be, that these methods will eventually return to threaten us.
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